Curse

The Last Preacher · Sep 24, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Jagged Bones
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, whenever target undead servant dies, it is replaced by a level 0...12 Jagged Horror that causes Bleeding with each of its attacks.

5 Energy - 1 Cast - 5 Seccond recharge.

Humm ok well what if I was to use Animate Shambling Horror, wait for the Shambling Horror to die, then cast Jagged Bones on the newly made Jagged Horror, when it dies will another Jagged Horror appear?

If so, constant minions. If not still a great skills and a great new elite.

Animate Bone Minions + Jagged Bones = FTW?

-MOTP

Zinger314 · Sep 24, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Yes to everything. Jagged Bones is indeed awesome.

You could also cast Jagged Bones on the Shambling Horror to ger 2 Jagged Horros.

The Last Preacher · Sep 24, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Man thats is awsome. Sorry golem but this is too good, think of the death nova you can pack.

Spellforge · Sep 25, 2006, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Will this work ?

2 man necro group

1 necro has golem which he raises.
2nd necro hits golem with Jagged Bones
1st necro sacrifices golem (Jagged Horror appears)
1st necro summons golem from its corpse

Rince and repeat until 2ns necro has 10 jagged horrors
(the 2nd necro could kill himself at start to provide first corpse for golem)

This is providing the 2nd necro can cast jagged bones on a minion ally that is not his own

Spellforge · Sep 25, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Will this work ?

2 man necro group

1 necro has golem which he raises.
2nd necro hits golem with Jagged Bones
1st necro sacrifices golem (Jagged Horror appears)
1st necro summons golem from its corpse

Rince and repeat until 2ns necro has 10 jagged horrors
(the 2nd necro could kill himself at start to provide first corpse for golem)

This is providing the 2nd necro can cast jagged bones on a minion ally that is not his own

Hella Good · Sep 25, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Seems like overkill to me. Shambling Horror + Death Nova + Jagged Bones + Taste of Death is really more than enough.

The Last Preacher · Sep 25, 2006, 08:08 PM // 20:08

@Spell: I hope that works, maybe there will be a new sea of minions.

@Hella: Well yes it seems like a really good build, and will be, if not changed. But ofcourse spamming all those skills maybe hard. Either way the concept is like having a duel purpose build.

Infinite minion bombs? Not sure if that is what A net intented

ubermancer · Sep 25, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

I can really see all necro partys being very PVE FOTM (should people accept the change).

A single corpse forming one minion, one time, is sufficient to give the Necro party a SR proc every 6 seconds. Which means, with 12 SR, 2 energy per second... SAME AS ETHER PRODIGY.

Now, this would have to be on a backline character, to keep the minion from engaging and getting owned (as their undoubtably low AL would make them prone to). They could even run this with 0 Death Magic. Meaning that you could have very high SR and, say, Blood for OoP.

Assuming 16 SR, the person keeping this SR factory up would have a 3.25 sec window in which to spend 14 energy (assuming no other deaths), before decreasing efficiency. This means he could Heal Party, Jagged Bones, Taste of Death at 16 SR and 12 Healing constantly, without ever running out of energy (skipping one HP every 14th 6 second cycle, and assuming no other deaths). Or, he could keep a 15 Blood OoP up easily.

This could be very nice in Urgoz B/P groups... if you rework the team a bit. Have all the Monks be replaced by high 15 SR 11 Heal 8 Prot Necros, and replace the Ele with a SS (who can use other fun things, like Dual Desecrates, Defile Flesh, etc). Thats a MM, a SS, 3x N/Mo's (for PuGs, you see), and 7 Barrage/Pet Rangers.

The BP Rangers enjoy the perfectly timed 6 second cycle of +16 OoP (w/ enchanting wrap), and each of the party's casters (MM, SS, 3x N/Mo) gain better-then-ether-prodigy energy management.

Assuming that the N/Mo's do basically nothing but spam the crap of Glimmer of Light, they are healing for 69 health per cast... which is 55.2 health per second, at a cost of 4 energy per second. With 1.33 base energy regen and 2.5 energy gained per second from the Jagged Bones necro you have an energy gain of 3.83 energy per second... meaning that you would have to spam Glimmer of Light, with no other deaths, for 6 seconds before you have even lost 1 net energy. Relying on a death (or pause) every 15 seconds to indefinately keep up a 55.2 health per second rate is very reasonable.

Especially when you compare that to a 15 DF 11 Heal 11 Prot build... where Glimmer of Light spam gets you 117 Heal per cast, which is 94.8 heal per second... but causes a net energy loss of 2.66 per second, rather then a mere 0.16 energy loss per second. That would deplete 30 energy in 11-12 seconds, where as it would take 3 MINUTES for the N/Mo to run out (assuming no deaths).

The loss of spike healing capabilities can easily be made up with the costlier heals, such as Heal Other (141 point heal assuming 11 Heal 0 DF) and even Infuse Health (~300 point heal, assuming 11 heal 0 DF and 480 health).

If you were running a team that didnt need OoP (such as my PVE Curse-Spike build), a possible alternative would be that the Jagged Bones Necro could use Dwayna's Sorrow and Heal Other... this would give him, at 12 Healing, a party wide 6.833 heal per second (better then recuperation), which takes effect every 6 seconds (41 health) and a 151 point heal (also per 6 seconds), without worry of down time or energy management. That, however takes 100% of his casting time!

The Jagged Necro could use Extinguish as needed, in place of his other skills, for a cycle.

While Im talking about BP and such...

R/P are also likely to be very powerful, in a BP build, if managed properly. R/W allows you to use IWAY and WY! (5 seconds is plenty), R/P can use Aggressive Refrain (permanent IAS yay), Stand Your Ground, Anthem of Envy, Zealous Anthem, Leader's Pride, and (especially if its changed back to spells only) Anthem of Power (amongst a few others). And of course the R/Mo can bring Tigers Fury+EoE/WW, and Rebirth.

Lots of potential here... and I didnt even mention the 1373 shadow damage AOE + 425 single target armor ignoring physical damage spike, either!

(btw, thats with only 2-3 people required for the err, spike, which takes place over 5 seconds)

Hella Good · Sep 25, 2006, 10:41 PM // 22:41

15 nrg shambling + 5 nrg jagged bones + 5 nrg death nova + 5 nrg tatse of death or putrid flesh = 30 nrg, and every time you want to do the chain you will have to have 15 nrg ready for it. With 10+ in SR, that means the bombing chain will cost you only about 5 net nrg, which regens in the time it takes you to cast the chain. In other words this new bomb necro is pretty much self sustaining w/o nrg management. In fact, I played it with Distortion at lvl 8 and- obviously- as soon as they realize I am MM-ing they would start beating on me, but still I had no nrg problems whatsoever. I supplemented with Sig of Lost Souls. The build is wonderful. Jagged bones is rugged. :-)

ubermancer · Sep 25, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

15 nrg shambling + 5 nrg jagged bones + 5 nrg death nova + 5 nrg tatse of death or putrid flesh = 30 nrg, and every time you want to do the chain you will have to have 15 nrg ready for it. With 10+ in SR, that means the bombing chain will cost you only about 5 net nrg, which regens in the time it takes you to cast the chain. In other words this new bomb necro is pretty much self sustaining w/o nrg management. In fact, I played it with Distortion at lvl 8 and- obviously- as soon as they realize I am MM-ing they would start beating on me, but still I had no nrg problems whatsoever. I supplemented with Sig of Lost Souls. The build is wonderful. Jagged bones is rugged. :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubermancer

Now, this would have to be on a backline character, to keep the minion from engaging and getting owned (as their undoubtably low AL would make them prone to). They could even run this with 0 Death Magic.

You would raise a single minion, then keep him and his 'descendents' to yourself, for the entire mission. This means you would be a purely defensive character; you would not even (come close enough to) engage the enemy, in order to prevent your sole minion from getting owned. This way the chain is, simply, Jagged+Taste of Death (10 energy, 2.75 sec cast time / 6 seconds).

Hella Good · Sep 25, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

I honestly dont see Jagged Bones in a non bomb build. I mean... yes, it is perfectly viable. In fact with Jagged Bones, BotM became even more useful for sustaining minions (since you can just Jagged Bones the ones you can no longer keep alive). But will so many deaths, I feel like bombing with JB is the way to go. Death Nova and Putrid Flesh are both great. PF not very useful in PvP for obvious reasons, unless some1 is tainting.

ubermancer · Sep 25, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I honestly dont see Jagged Bones in a non bomb build. I mean... yes, it is perfectly viable. In fact with Jagged Bones, BotM became even more useful for sustaining minions (since you can just Jagged Bones the ones you can no longer keep alive). But will so many deaths, I feel like bombing with JB is the way to go. Death Nova and Putrid Flesh are both great. PF not very useful in PvP for obvious reasons, unless some1 is tainting.

Yes its true that Death Nova is a VERY attractive skill, I feel that this is better for a primary MM. I am talking exclusively about the battery aspect of Jagged. A possible variant of my urgoz curse spike build is a prime example of this... as it functions as a party-wide BiP. Really just absurd energy gain.

---

Oh yeah, you could also have a very low health backline necro. With 1 max health, all normal sacrifice costs (even BiP) are -0. However, I dont know if this is floored or rounded normally... that would be the difference between being able to cast BOTM (sans AOTL) when your teammates have a total of 22 or less servants, versus 47 or less, without instant death (47 and 97 w/ AOTL). It could also be that with 1 max health, all sacrifice costs are -0.

Depending on is Order of Undeath hits all allied servants or not, you could potentially add +17*40*2.5=1700 (average; maximum deviation +/- 20%) damage per 5 seconds, from OoU alone (assuming 4 MM's with 10 Fiends each). If not, simply having the other MM's cast it each themselves, and then relying on some HP spam to bring em back up between spikes (20-30 hits, favoring 30, -2% each, means ~70% life lost with 10 fiends). With the rate this would kill things, if there is no real aoe, its entirely feasible to have the Necros use OoU, Heal Party, Heal Party (55 energy [30 EW], 8.5 seconds [if continious]). Especially with a Jagged Necro in the back... then your necros gain (assuming 12 SR) 28.33 energy per 8.5 seconds. Now, thats pretty much enough to ensure regular energy under EW (though the HP's would be a bit more spaced out, increasing energy gain per cycle) as you can rely on enemy deaths to regen energy... very feasible with very large numbers of minions attacking at +17 damage, each.

Oh, something I forgot to include in my earlier calculations... under QZ, no EW, a Jagged necro could provide SR procs every 3.5 seconds (assuming no FC). 12 SR = 3 3/7 additional energy per second (4 16/21, ~4.8 energy per second) ; 16 SR = 4 4/7 additional energy per second (5 19/21, ~5.9 energy per second). At that point, even with the additional cost of QZ, you have a very hard time SPENDING all of that energy.

This also leaves the Jagged necro with exactly enough time to cast a one second cast skill inbetween cycles. Monk secondary, with Dwayna's Sorrow (11 5/7 heal per second @ 12 healing, ~ +6 pips) seems ideal, as its party wide (good for a back line character), and permits Rebirth, Holy Viel, and Extinguish.

Cowboy Nastyman · Sep 26, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

i was playing around with this skill as a rit/nec very fun indeed, constant death nova bomb and every time the jagged is re created it triggers boon and explosive growth, all in all one of my favorite elites that i cant wait to try in pve.

ubermancer · Sep 26, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Oh yeah, and if OoU applies to all minions, the MM could carry Jagged, while the backline necro could bring OoU and simply Taste of Death the servant each time it got enchanted. This means the heavy damage skill is on the backline character.

Its another if though.

Zinger314 · Sep 26, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

OoU, according to testing on GWO, doesn't affect all allied minions. That would definately be overpowered.

ubermancer · Sep 26, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

OoU, according to testing on GWO, doesn't affect all allied minions. That would definately be overpowered.

Link me please?

greaterlych · Sep 26, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

I think this would work really well:

Animate Shambling Horror - 15e cost 3s cast 15s recharge - starts chain and will create one jagged horror

Jagged Bones - 5e cost 1s cast 5s recharge - adds another jagged horror

Dwayna's Sorrow - 5e cost 1s cast 5s recharge - heals party when minion dies

Death Nova - 5e cost 2s cast 0s recharge - causes damage and poison on minion's death

Taste of Death - 5e cost 1/4s cast 0s recharge - powerful self heal and destroys minion

With a decent ammount of points in Soul Reaping you can keep this chain up indefinately. With 15 Soul Reaping the net cost for this chain on the first cast is 20e. While waiting for Animate Shambling Horror to recharge, the chain can be cast on one of the Jagged Horrors. Without a Shambling Horror being animated the net cost of the chain is 5e. Of course energy management will be even better once the 10 minion ceiling is reached, and spamming Jagged Horror and Taste of Death will return energy quite quickly.

Anyway, that's my two cents on Jagged Bones.

Edit: I forgot to mention that Dwayna's Sorrow doesn't have to be cast on every chain, as it lasts 30s and will most likely hit all of the Jagged Horrors. Also, pulling one point out of Death Magic to put in healing with give the enchantment plenty of juice.

Zinger314 · Sep 26, 2006, 02:02 AM // 02:02

From GWO:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccrazool

Reports from the field:

Order of Undeath: Does not affect allies' minions.
This was an easy one to test. I had my buddy make a pack of fiends and cast the spell. He didn't see any bigger numbers, nor did he take any health sacrifice damage. I didn't expect it to, for it reads "For 5 seconds, your minions deal +17 damage...", explicitly stating that it only works for my own minions.
- This spell did not affect my friend's minions.

Jagged Bones: Does not affect allies' minions.
This spell reads "Whenever target undead servant dies". I'm not sure why it's worded this way, which is different than any other minion spell. It should read "animated undead ally" like the rest of them. Oh well. I had a friend make a fiend, selected that fiend and cast the spell. The animation went off, the energy was spent, but no upward yellow arrow appeared on the bar, no glowy circle appeared around the fiend. I used it just before the fiend died, and no Jagged Horror popped out.
- I can not enchant my friend's minions with this spell.

Putrid Flesh: Does not affect allies' minions.
The skill reads "Destroy target animated undead ally." So, I had a friend create a bone fiend and used Putrid Flesh on it. The casting animation went off, the energy was spent, but the fiend did not die.
- I could not destroy my friend's minions with this spell.

Feast for the Dead: Does not affect allies' minions (in any way).
The skill reads "Destroy target animated undead ally. All your other animated undead allies are healed for 106." That made me think that I could destroy any party members' minion and also heal all party members' minions. Nope. Energy spent, animation was seen, but the minion did not die.
- I could not destroy my friend's minions with this spell.
- My friend's minions were not healed when I destroyed my own minion with this spell.

HolyHawk · Sep 26, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by greaterlych

I think this would work really well:

Animate Shambling Horror - 15e cost 3s cast 15s recharge - starts chain and will create one jagged horror

Jagged Bones - 5e cost 1s cast 5s recharge - adds another jagged horror

Dwayna's Sorrow - 5e cost 1s cast 5s recharge - heals party when minion dies

Death Nova - 5e cost 2s cast 0s recharge - causes damage and poison on minion's death

Taste of Death - 5e cost 1/4s cast 0s recharge - powerful self heal and destroys minion

With a decent ammount of points in Soul Reaping you can keep this chain up indefinately. With 15 Soul Reaping the net cost for this chain on the first cast is 20e. While waiting for Animate Shambling Horror to recharge, the chain can be cast on one of the Jagged Horrors. Without a Shambling Horror being animated the net cost of the chain is 5e. Of course energy management will be even better once the 10 minion ceiling is reached, and spamming Jagged Horror and Taste of Death will return energy quite quickly.

Anyway, that's my two cents on Jagged Bones.

Edit: I forgot to mention that Dwayna's Sorrow doesn't have to be cast on every chain, as it lasts 30s and will most likely hit all of the Jagged Horrors. Also, pulling one point out of Death Magic to put in healing with give the enchantment plenty of juice.

We used that in gvg, worked pretty well with jagged bones. We tried it without and is definetely not the same. Dwayna's sorrow now has some nice use.

TheBaron82 · Sep 26, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Yeah I agree all of these strategies works but you must keep in mind clicking on minion to put up jagged bone and nova is annoying so as killing the right minion. I think it is a lot of work which could distract your concentration on kiting damage or observe the battle field.